We all know that wellness is a lot easier when you have money to throw at problems, and a job that doesn’t suck the life out of you. However, it can be tricky to know how to advance your career as a woman. Today, we’re joined by career strategist Nicky Espinosa. Nicky is helps ambitious women land their dream jobs and create their dream lives. Many of us think we need to go and get a new job that’s a better fit for us, but Nicky has a more holistic perspective that I know will rock your world.
Disclaimer: This podcast does not constitute medical advice. You should always speak to your doctor before changing your nutrition or exercise habits.
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How to Advance Your Career as a woman, with nicky espinosa – EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Lauren Chante 0:54
Hello, hello my rockstars! Welcome back to Rock your Wellness with Lauren Chante. Today, I’ve got a great episode coming at you today because this is the culmination of decades of my experience as a wellness strategist and then also an amazing guest who literally just popped on my radar at the perfect time to bring this topic to you guys and if there’s anything that I’ve learned over the last almost 15 years of working in my field is that money matters. And your work matters when it comes to your wellness and I think a lot of times there’s like a lot of tough love culture around wellness like “Well walking is free” and like “I you really want it enough then you’ll get up at 5am before your 12 hour shift” or “You’ll fit it into your 60 Hour Workweek”. And I think that it’s just really important that we put a hard stop to that type of conversation and really recognize that we as women deserve better and not only do we deserve better than that type of tough love mindset, but it’s actually possible it’s actually possible to have more and so that’s why today I brought a Career Strategist on to talk to us. I brought on Nicky Espinosa. She is a Career Strategist who helps ambitious women land their dream jobs and create their dream lives and not their settling life, not their mediocre lives, not their tough love lives, their dream lives. She was a Chief Human Resources officers Officer and Executive for over 20 years. Nikki brings you the inside scoop to help you overcome barriers to advancing your career, navigate the job search and land the best opportunities so you can lead your most fulfilled life. She’s the author of No Apology Needed: The Career-Transforming Power of Authenticity for Women Leaders, the proud mama to 2 kids who are now in their mid 20s and she lives in Minnesota with her hubby and her three dogs who you may hear on this podcast! We all know dogs can stay quiet during podcast! So welcome Nikki to the show.
Nicky Espinosa 2:55
Thank you so much Lauren. I am so thrilled to be here and have this conversation with you. I think it’s going to be great. A great few minutes together here.
Lauren Chante 3:04
Yeah, I think so too. And I have like so many places that I want to go with this conversation because there’s just so much to unpack here. There’s so much here to unpack as far as women and career there’s so much to unpack about how wellness plays in there. So I guess maybe a good place to start is just give us a bird’s eye view of what people usually think and believe when they come to you. And then how you’re able to shift what they believe is possible for them. Because I feel like that’s the starting point.
Nicky Espinosa 3:31
Yeah, absolutely. And it’s interesting because I do think there are probably some parallels to the work that you do and actually I’m going to say in any work where women are wanting to better themselves. There’s this limiting belief that so many women have that this idea of fulfillment and joy and balance isn’t really possible. But you know, like it’s, it’s, it’s this pipe dream a little bit.
Lauren Chante 3:56
It’s an urban myth.
Unknown Speaker 3:59
It’s for somebody else. And in my work people come to me exhausted, exhausted and you know, lots of health issues too. I mean, some of that’s from stress and just not taking care of themselves. But they’re exhausted trying to work what they see you know, as a big job, but also a big life, right? They want to have fun, they want to have time with their family and their friends. And they’ve been kind of fed this lie their entire career that you have to sacrifice and you have to suffer to have it all, right. And so they believe that. So they work harder, they work harder and harder and harder until they’re burned out. And they come to me kind of at that place going I’m sick of this. But now what because I’ve earned this level on the career ladder for myself, I’ve earned a certain level of paycheck and status and all of those things. And how are we going to like make that balance without getting those things. And you know, you’ve created a lifestyle. Your family has gotten used to certain things right. You don’t want to take a step back. But yeah, most of the times people come to me and I appreciate your comment about “Get up earlier” or like that the idea in corporate too, it’s like if you want time for yourself or you want to be resilient and more grounded, you’re supposed to get up earlier or stay later or, you know or the myth of time management. Right.
Lauren Chante 5:23
Oh, my gosh, if I hear the Pomodoro method one more time I’m hit somebody over the head with my iPhone! Or like just put reminder, ‘Time Blocking’.
Unknown Speaker 5:29
Yeah, just do this. This is the key to all of your happiness right here. Do this one little thing, or you just need different habits. You know, there is a combination of all of these things, right? But yeah, when people come to me, they are pretty much at that bottom rock bottom place saying “I don’t know how to make this career work anymore. But I really want to, but I don’t know how”. So help me.
Unknown Speaker 5:55
Yeah, that’s so beautiful. And then you and I also talked in like a separate conversation. For something else that we were working on together about how like that feeling of burnout and being unwell and exhausted for some people can even prevent them from pursuing the next level of their work because they’re like, how could I possibly take on more responsibility at work? How could I apply for that promotion? How can I seek something better for myself and my family if I already can’t handle what I have right now? And we were kind of talking about how there’s different approaches to that. On my end, I help people approach that from the wellness side. I help people to put the easy Chaos Group strategies in place so that they can feel more energetic and feel their body come back online so they have something to bring to the table and bring to work. And then you help people on the other side, which is, what kind of career mistakes and perceptions do you have right now that are toxic that we can get you out of? So it’s really interesting to hear you talk because I’ll be honest one of the reasons I’m an entrepreneur is because like working for someone else terrifies me. I almost feel like if I knew if I knew Nikky Espinosa a long time ago, maybe I wouldn’t be so afraid to work for someone else. So like what is possible and how far can people go into, you know, creating the lifestyle they want while working for somebody else like paint a picture for us. What do your clients see usually?
Lauren Chante 7:15
Yeah. So what my clients, the outcomes that they’re after are often about fulfillment within the work and that includes like lining up to the right kind of companies, the right kind of teams, you know, it’s funny because I’m an entrepreneur too, because I don’t think I can work for a boss ever again, because I did that for 25 years. But what I teach women how to do is how to change perceptions, how to have those conversations, so that you can you know, make some headway in those political environments. But to do it from a place of authenticity, and a place that feels really good to you. And I think that that’s a big disconnect for so many women is that we’re taught how to play the corporate game in kind of a man’s world. Nobody really taught us how to have balance. Nobody taught us how to really, you know, how do you be a good mom and really be present, and then take that 10am or 10pm meeting from so and so that needs to happen. You know, how are we prioritizing those things? How do you say no to your boss? When you need to create some of those boundaries. And instead of being taught those things, I think a lot of women were taught how to work harder and how to impress the big guns right or how to create you know, maybe creating this professional brand that’s not you and what I want women to really understand and I think this is why so many women are stepping out of the workforce and stepping back is because they don’t see a way to do it authentically. Right because they don’t see how can I do this and still be me, still be feminine still, you know? Lean into my Soft Skills and those approaches. And what I teach you how to do is really grounding your your yourself and your own talent, understanding what those things really are. There’s a lot of work in my program around self sabotage, because there’s so much conditioning that needs to be reprogrammed. For women, I mean, I say women in a man’s world and I say that kind of cheeky, but honestly women who are climbing the ladder, there’s a lot of men surrounding us and those mentors, a lot of male mentors. Some of that advice just isn’t going to land for you. And that’s not bad. It doesn’t mean that’s a bad mentor. It just means you need somebody who’s been walking in your shoes and through your own experiences. And that’s why I feel like we need to have more conversation about empowering women in the corporate space to be yourself. You don’t have to be like you know, Sam or Joe. You get to be who you are.
I love that I may have shared with you at another time that as I was growing up, I was actually coached to like lower my voice when I was talking to not have a high pitched voice because my mom would tell me, you know, if you want to be taken seriously, you have to have a deeper voice. You can’t be up here and talking like a woman and just all those little things like that. I’m sure I’m not the only person who has somehow internalized all of this. And what I’m hearing, Nicky, as I’m processing this is like we all have the same 24 hours in a day and if you’re exhausted and burnt out, it’s not because you have more than 24 hours in your day. Everybody has it. It’s the way your 24 hours are being spent. You’re not connected to your work. You’re feeling exhausted. You’re putting out all these small fires all the time you don’t know how to productively ask for what you need at work. You have a toxic environment you need like conflict resolution, just all this stuff. And so it’s about working with someone who can help you to get all of that to a place where your 24 hours no longer feels like it’s sucking the life out of you. Does that sound right?
Unknown Speaker 10:56
Yes. I do, I have a training that I that I do. And there’s a little analogy I’ll share if it’s in the training but you know, we talked about the piece of the pie and we all have 24 hours in a day. And you know back to that comment, our thoughts about jumping up early or you know, trying to squeeze it in. I think a lot of advice that women get is how to make like this tiny little sliver of time for us. You know how to make that bigger, where you know get up earlier or squeeze in a 30 minute, you know, catnapp which just never sounds reasonable, right? We’re given all this advice about how to increase that little tiny sliver. And, and I say well, that’s nice. I mean, I know I’m not gonna get up at 4:30 in the morning and that’s not happening for me. But it’s much more bang for your buck to say, where am I spending all of my time? You’re spending 60 to 70 plus percent of your waking hours working. And if that’s not filling you up, that’s a problem. I mean, I kind of think that’s kind of my first gate point with clients is acknowledging that that’s a problem. That that’s not the way you’re supposed to live your life. People know that they don’t love it, right. They know that they’re not fulfilled. They know that they’re exhausted, but they think that’s normal. Like that’s just the way it is if you chose to have a corporate career as a woman because you have all these other responsibilities, and that’s bull crap. That’s not true.
Lauren Chante 12:26
You’re call it out. Calling it out like it is.
Unknown Speaker 12:29
You absolutely deserve happiness. You deserve balance. You deserve playfulness in your day. And all of the work I do comes from how do you create that kind of environment in your working environment? And if it’s not possible in the team that you’re in and the organization you’re in, then how do you make the move and do it with confidence? So you don’t have to second guess yourself and wonder like, Am I doing the right thing? No, you’re gonna find the right environment for yourself. And you know, ultimately, we kind of laugh about corporate stuff, too. But ultimately, I have a lot of clients that will come to me with this idea that I’m going to either advance or I’m going to look at a different company or maybe a different culture, and we go through the process. And they quickly under quickly uncover that. They’re really ambitious for business. They’re an entrepreneur, and how do we make that happen? So, you know, we also do some of that work in my program as well, but the bulk of the work is around how do you land your dream job and live your dream life? It’s just who’s your boss? It may be a little bit different story.
Unknown Speaker 13:34
I love that. I love that. I love the pie analogies, like who’s eating my pie? I want my pie back.
Nicky Espinosa 13:42
Why did my slice the pumpkin pie gets smaller?
Unknown Speaker 13:50
Hold up. Don’t worry. This podcast episode is coming right back but I wanted to make sure I had your attention to let you know that our awesome guest, Nikky Espinosa is doing something really special for my students in the Welness Reborn Intensive.
Lauren Chante 14:03
If you’re one of my intensive students and you need coaching, from now on you’re going to get a free session, with Nicky, to help you get started on getting to your career where you want it to be. This is so awesome. And I’m really excited that Nicky is doing this for us. So you can head to Laurenchante.com/explorewellnessreborn and chat with me about whether the intensive is a good fit for you.
Okay, so as women are listening to this, maybe this is their first time really being exposed to the idea that things don’t have to be awful in their career, that they can be filled up like. What’s the first step that they need to take? I mean, obviously, I know that working with you would be the best and as someone who works with people intensively on the wellness side, I always like to say there’s there’s no substitute for having someone in your corner in an intensive fashion, but like just like a first step, a first layer of some small action they can take what would you say?
Unknown Speaker 15:05
Well, my first gut is to say you know, I have a free training that you should attend.
Lauren Chante 15:11
Yes, tell them about your free training.
Unknown Speaker 15:12
Let’s talk about the free training because in about 35 minutes in that training, I really can boil it down for you. So check that out. I’ll have that in the link. Just a 35 minute free mini course on how to land your dream job and love your dream life in four simple steps. And that’s going to shake it out for you like it doesn’t have to be complicated. It does have to be deliberate and intentional, right. And I think the first step is this mindset shift of I’m more than this, like I’m meant for more, or this isn’t this isn’t good enough for me. Like that’s okay to say this isn’t good enough. And that’s really hard. I think for a lot of clients that come to me, they have good jobs, right. You know, they make decent money. They are working for prestigious employers. They have jobs that other people might kill for right. And so they go I’m not supposed to be unhappy. I’m supposed to love this. Well, you don’t love it, and that’s okay. That’s okay to acknowledge that because at the end of the day, what are you really doing if you’re just going through the motions? You’re accepting other people’s expectations and limitations on you. You’re accepting other people’s rules instead of what you want to do for your life? It is absolutely possible to live a more fulfilled career and a more fulfilled life. But the first step is making that shift that you deserve more than what you’re getting. And it’s not disloyal. It you don’t need to feel guilty for wanting something more or different.
Unknown Speaker 16:56
Yes, I love that. And I say on the wellness side all the time, too, because it doesn’t really matter who someone else is and how someone else feels and it’s your experience. It’s your lived experience. And ultimately, it’s not about the job, in your case or in my case, it’s not about the body. It’s about enjoying your life and living the purpose and the passion that you have for yourself. So I love that so much and yeah, that free training is going to be at Espinosacoaching.com/freetraining and I’ll make sure that’s in the show notes, as well, so you guys can go and click on that.
Lauren Chante 17:28
And, I almost hesitate to ask this question because I hate that it’s being talked about so much but, there’s a recession coming everyone keeps saying and I know there’s some people right now who are thinking well, I’m gonna lose like bargaining power and leveraging power in the workplace. If anything like this is not the time for me to be like making changes in how ‘m acting at work. I just need to keep my head down. Avoid the chopping block. Not like make any waves and what would you say to those people who are already like minimizing this is something that they should not do right now.
Why would say how do you recession proof your career? How do you do that? Well, sitting still, being in the corner, and hoping you put your head down and hoping nobody notices you is not going to work. It actually puts you at great risk because you’re you’re hoping that somebody else doesn’t make a decision that impacts your life. Now, the flip side of that is get in a position so you call the shots, right. And the truth is most talented, powerful, ambitious women, you have everything you need to call all the shots in your life. But you’re giving that up to other people. And we I understand why, I mean I spent 25 years in corporate and across different industries and I’ve been in a lot of different cultures, right? I understand that. What it feels like when you’re in there. It feels like you can’t control it, right? It feels like all this stuff is happening to me or around me. But the truth is, you always have the most leverage, but you have to be able to respond to the circumstances right? So recession coming, hitting, who knows right? We’ll see what happened. But recession proofing your career, I think about that is about being ready for whatever is going to happen and creating circumstances, creating situations opportunities, where maybe they weren’t there before. So if you’re thinking like I’m putting my head down and sitting in the corner, I’m going to be quiet and hope nobody hits me on the chopping block. What happens when they do and you’re now still in the same boat and in a worse boat? But now you’re not prepared for what could be next and then you end up losing the job. Alright, well then I go get a different job. And you repeat the same patterns over again. You come across, I mean, obviously you’re desperate at that point, right. So we come across desperate and we come across, you know, we take even less, you can end up further behind than what you really want to be because you chose not to actually take any action for yourself. You’re just letting things happen around you.
Nicky Espinosa 20:19
And honestly, that’s the place I spent a good five years of my career was at this rock bottom place feeling like completely, everything was out of my control. Miserable, pity party, I did the whole thing. You know. I mean, if you throw pandemic and restriction on top of all of that, and you’re if you’re at that rock bottom place and feeling that that pity party a little bit. It’s really hard to pull yourself out of that without help. But is it possible? Absolutely. It is possible. You just have to decide if you want to be be intentional about your career if you want to let it happen to you.
Lauren Chante 20:58
I love that so much Nicky. What you said about rock bottom. I mean, most of my clients I would say come to me when they’re at sort of their own rock bottom too, and I’m sure you feel this way as well. But I I wish that people would not let themselves get to rock bottom before they asked for the help. I really do and guys if you’re listening and you’re like, Oh, this is great, but I really don’t need it. Well, it’s kind of like drinking water. You never think that you need water until you feel like you’re super thirsty. That is the same thing with health and mentorship and whatever area it is whether it’s working with a wellness strategist working with a Career Strategist like Nicky, I would love to see people stop asking for help at the point where they feel like they almost don’t have anything left with which to ask. The point of you’re either so emotionally and physically depleted that even just picking up the phone and making that SOS call feels exhausting because it doesn’t have to be that way. And it just, what do you have to lose from getting amazing help in your life? Like what do you have to lose either? I mean, I don’t know!
Nicky Espinosa 22:09
I totally know that and I wanted to add you know when I think about where my clients and the journey that they end up on, right? A lot of times what they do when they start when you start to get that little inkling like Oh, I’m not happy. I’m not really sure. It presents almost like Oh, I think I’m ready for something else. That’s what it presets like “Oh, I’m ready for something else”.
Lauren Chante 22:31
Yea, I can see that.
Nicky Espinosa 22:31
Like, oh, maybe I just need a different job. And but when they start really playing that out, they’re not clear about what they really want or what’s available in the market. It starts to get really overwhelming and then they kind of settle back in right it’s easier to retreat. Their go to is what we know in the corporate world is you know, go to your mentor. Go to sometimes your HR people have leadership coaches and things like that. And we think that that’s the answer. So we go ask our mentors, we go ask our colleagues that we trust, you know, what should I do? Guess what, what do you want to do? And you’re gonna go I don’t know, what should I do? And you end up in this like cycle where I hear from so many women who say, I’ve gotten great advice from you know, XYZ mentor over the course of my career, but he couldn’t help me with this or she couldn’t help me with this. No, because it’s not about them. And it’s not really about the act, action that you need to take next apply for this job or that job or whatever. It’s about how you feel about yourself and setting goals reevaluating your life and your career as you go. I mean the career you wanted to build when you were 22 is not the career you’re still trying to build when you’re 42. And I think that we forget that we need to constantly be reassessing and re evaluating and pivoting. We do it in our lives. We go through seasons in our lives and we’re always looking at what we want for fulfillment in our careers. We need to do the same thing. And I see too many women instead of reevaluating, they just go oh, well, this isn’t turning out the way I hoped. But I’m working my tail off. I don’t have any more time to do anything different. But it’s not about having more time to do something different. Again, it’s about the intention, and really looking at yourself. So your mentors, great advice, you know, for politics and you know, maybe relationships within an organization and things like that, but they’re not going to be really helpful when it comes to what do you want for your career and your fulfillment?
Lauren Chante 24:35
That’s so good. And I was also thinking as you were talking that when we ask other people about what our paths should be, we push innovation out of the way like then there’s suddenly no opportunity for you to be the first like maybe you’re meant to do something away that’s different than has ever been done in your company before. Maybe there’s a new role that is meant to be created with your name on it. And so I think it’s very, very valuable to be able to have someone like you Nicky alongside to like, really flesh out what you really want. And then if you get to the point where you’re like I need to like create an opportunity, do something innovative, whatever, to have somebody don’t hold your hand is great, because it is I mean, it’s really scary, like doing new things and being an innovator so that’s so cool. Thank you so much Nikki, is there anything else you want to share with our audience any like last words or anything that came to your mind you haven’t gotten to share yet?
Nicky Espinosa 25:34
You know, I think last words, you know, chase the energy. Chase what gives you energy and if you’re exhausted and you’re not having a lot of energy in your life, you need to take a look at that. What’s that really about? And that might be about your health, that might be about your career that might be about relationships that are weighing on you, you know, whatever it is get some help for that because you don’t have to live your life tired all the time, chase the energy and success will come.
Lauren Chante 26:04
I love that chase the energy and you guys if you want to keep up with Nicky you can head over her website, Espinosacoaching.com. And she’s also on LinkedIn and Facebook and she’s got an awesome podcast called girlfriends guide to the C suite. So thank you so much, Nikki.
Nicky Espinosa 26:21
Thank you