Play isn’t just for kids – it’s an important part of wellness for adults, too. Play impacts our bodies in deep ways, especially because of its impact on our nervous system. But how exactly do adults do this? And how do we tackle the myriad of adult mindsets that keep us from play?
These are all things I’ve been confronting in my personal life, so I sought help from an expert – Dr. Laura Froyen joins us to explain play for adults.
Disclaimer: This podcast does not constitute medical advice. You should always speak to your doctor before changing your nutrition or exercise habits.
SHOW NOTES:
Continue the Conversation – Rock Your Wellness Podcast Official Facebook Group
Work With Lauren: Your Daily Journal – Wellness Reborn Intensive
Connect with Dr. Froyen: Web Site – Instagram
EPISODE TRANSCRIPT
Lauren Chante 0:50
Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show. I am, as usual pumped up for this week’s episode. And this one is kind of unique, because it’s one of those where I’m not the expert. And this is something that I’m working on myself. And I brought in an amazing expert to talk to us about today’s topic, which is play for adults. And I’m going to introduce our guests. And then I want to tell you guys a little bit about my inspiration. And the reason I want to talk about this topic. So we’re going to talk to Dr. Laura Fran, who has her PhD in Human Development and Family Studies with a specialization in couple and family therapy, which sounds amazing who doesn’t need that? Laura combines trauma informed practices with the latest in child development research to help families find more peace, calm and connection. She teaches conscious parenting and communication with heaping doses of grace and compassion through her podcast, the balanced parent and her courses and programs. And I listened to her podcast, I follow her on social and I have to tell you that Laura has had such an impact on me both with my parenting style, and with things that I’ve discovered even in my wellness method through listening to her and learning from her. So I’m really excited to have her on the show. Welcome, Laura.
Dr. Laura Froyen 2:04
Oh, thanks for having me learn. And can I just say how lucky your community is to have you stepping into a place of vulnerability, and letting them peek behind the scenes of your own growth journey. We don’t get to see that very often. And I think it’s just a beautiful, brave gift that you’re giving your community I feel really fortunate to be a part of it. Oh,
Lauren Chante 2:24
thank you. That’s so kind of you to say and I hope it’s something that we can normalize through podcasting, you know, because how much better would life be for moms, if we all just stood on each other’s shoulders, instead of going through the same journey over and over? Like we can get farther along faster by learning from each other?
Laura Froyen 2:40
Yeah, and the permission that it gives, like, oh, gosh, we don’t have to have this all figured out. We can be in progress and in process. You know, in our lives, it’s a good thing. It’s a good thing for everybody to see.
Lauren Chante 2:53
That’s so true. And I should give everybody the behind the scenes because like an hour before we weren’t gonna record you’re like, oh my gosh, my cleaning lady supposed to come and like, do I need to wear makeup? Like how big of a deal is this? And it was so like, no, who cares if your cleaning lady is here? Who cares if there’s a vacuum cleaner in the backyard? Because we want to normalize real life like for people who are on podcasts and people who you see on social media, let’s make this real?
Laura Froyen 3:14
Absolutely. I used to feel a lot of guilt and shame around needing to have someone help with cleaning every now and again. I felt like a bad mom, a bad wife, about women. And I’ve worked through a lot of those things, but we don’t get to see that very often.
Lauren Chante 3:30
Oh, that’s so true. So we’re celebrating your cleaning lady tonight. Yes,
Laura Froyen 3:32
she’s amazing and so wonderful. So good.
Lauren Chante 3:36
Okay, so I listeners I want to tell you guys what inspired this for me this is very much something that I’m working on myself and I recently read how to do the work by Dr. Nicola para if you guys follow her on Instagram, she’s the holistic psychologist. And a lot of what she talks about is like trauma, which obviously Dr. Laura you’re very well informed in. And um, something called RE parenting. And something that really resonated with me from the book is that we all experienced trauma in one form or another. She basically says in there that no matter what you do, in some way you’re going to encounter trauma in your life. And it’s so important for us to be aware of it and to heal from it. And part of the healing process is called RE parenting and she’s got four steps to re parenting. I’m not going to bore you guys with all of them. But the really interesting thing about this to me was the fourth step is rediscovering your childlike sense of wonder. And I’ve got to tell you guys, this is a place where I really started to realize that I was hitting a wall and the first place I started to realize it was with you, Laura, in your 30 days of play challenge that you do annually, which is amazing. She she emails these prompts for you every day to like learn about your kids play and your involvement in their play and to learn different patterns and just to grow around that. And I started to realize how stunted I was in playing with my kids and really kind of started to try to dive deeper into that especially because my spouse he was one of four boys and he’s like the most amazing playmate in the world he’s like, incredible. So much so that my son jokes that he’s the fourth child in our family, because he’s such a great playmate, and he’s so good. So I was like, Okay, I need to go on a journey with us. And I’ve been on a journey with it. And it’s something that’s coming up continuously. So I want to read you guys some quotes from from the book that I read, because they were really powerful to me. The fourth pillar, one of the ultimate goals of the work is to rediscover our childlike sense of wonder. This state is made up of a combination of creativity and imagination, joy and spontaneity, and of course, playfulness. And then it skips if I skip down, it says, The reality is that most of us were raised in homes where childlike wonder was not valued or even tolerated. So creativity was not fostered how many of us were told to put away our paint brushes, because artists don’t make money. How many of us had parent figures who ignored or suppressed their own creative endeavors in favor of more patentable pursuits, as adults, it’s crucial for us to prioritize the things in our lives that bring us joy in themselves, not because of any secondary gains. That beautiful,
Lauren Chante 6:08
yeah, and also just deeply painful. Thinking about all these little wounded children who are walking in our bodies every day.
Lauren Chante 6:17
Yeah, and they go on to talk about how play is really actually a fundamental part of our wellness, almost just like brushing your teeth, and going through your regular, you know, dental appointments and exercise and when working with therapists, but how many of us actually think of that, as part of what we need to do for ourselves?
Laura Froyen 6:37
Yeah, you know, play is something that in traditional cultures, adult humans do, and they don’t do it in Western cultures. And it is a huge detriment to our health, there’s so much research on the benefits of play and playfulness in adulthood. Of course, play looks different for adults than it does for kids. But the research on the benefits of play, it’s very clear how important it is for our nervous systems. For our brain health, and for our just our mental health, too.
Lauren Chante 7:13
It’s crazy to me when you said that, in other cultures, it’s normal for adults to play like that literally blew my mind. I was like, what? I can’t imagine a culture where adults don’t just hustle and take care of other people and go to work. And how sad is that, that that’s what my idea is.
Laura Froyen7:29
Yeah, I mean, gosh, capitalism can has really made it hard for us to be full people, right, who are not striving and hustling and working. Our culture really values productivity. And play is seen as the as the thing that prevents us from being productive. And so if the only way we can have value and worth as adults in this culture is to be productive, then how on earth could we have time for play. And of course, we know you are discovering. And those of you who are listening who have discovered the benefits of play, we know that in order to be more productive, you actually quite need a lot of play. That play helps you approach your work with more passion and vigor and more purpose.
Unknown Speaker 8:20
So true. And kind of what I’m reading in between the lines there is you have to know your worth to go on this journey. Because it’s like we are getting all these messages about play being frivolous, taking time for yourself being selfish. And if you haven’t worked on knowing your worth, it’s going to be really hard to go counter culture and to really embrace that, right?
Laura Froyen 8:41
It really is. And the thing about play for kids and for adults is that play is intrinsically valuable. And so what that means is that it doesn’t have an end result that makes it valuable. So doing homework is valuable, because it helps you retain information, learn something and then you can get a good grade or you or you know, when you’re really focused on the outcomes, you understand the material and can use it for good. But play has value in and of itself. Sure, there’s lots of great wonderful things that come as a byproduct of play, but it’s intrinsically valuable. And that type of intrinsic value is something that we don’t see very often that we don’t get to experience very often, especially in this culture. You know, we start very young, teaching kids to focus on external validation, to focus on results and to come out of the present moment and come out of our truths in our inherent value. It’s a play is a wonderful way to get back into into the present moment back into intrinsic value. It’s a it’s a beautiful avenue for a lot of healing and growth.
Lauren Chante 9:54
Yeah, that’s so special. And I know when I work with my students, I’ve had a couple of stuff Indians who have kind of tapped into the fact that they need to bring more play and creativity into their lives. But the framing always seems to be like, I’ll do it when I’ll do it when all my kids are in kindergarten, I’ll do it when I have more physical energy. And like, do you have anything that you could speak to that would maybe make people understand the urgency of doing it now, or give themselves the permission to do it now, instead of always needing to wait for something to happen?
Laura Froyen 10:30
Yeah. So of course, you know, I don’t know about your audience that my audience is mostly moms. And I feel like with moms, if I tell them, it’s good for their kids that are more likely to do it, than if I tell them, it’s good for them. So take all of this with a grain of salt, it’s definitely good for you. And you are entitled to do things that are good for you just because they’re good for you, as a person, as a human being who’s on this earth. But it’s wonderful for your kids to see you prioritizing yourself, if we are mothers, we are a walking advertisement for motherhood. And so the way we show up for ourselves every day is what gives our kids permission to show up for themselves every day to so there’s this really powerful piece of modeling, modeling, what it’s like to have a whole life of well rounded and robust life that is filled with with passion and enjoyment and productivity at times, you know, doing the work, but also doing the rest and doing the play. And if we want well rounded kids, which is what most parents say they want. And we’ve got to be well rounded adults in modeling that for them. Um, so there’s that. And then the other I think one of the biggest barriers for fun and play is it seems big and daunting. And like, I need big stretches of time to be able to do it. Or we’d like to compartmentalize things, we want to just get to this next stage. And then we’ll do it, where we get to this next milestone. And the thing is, is that for the most part, that target is always moving, you know, once they get into kindergarten, then it’s going to be like, okay, they’ve got a whole day at school. And now I can finally declutter the school, the house, and so then you don’t do the play. And now the house is decluttered. And now, you know, I can decorate it the way I want, and you don’t do the play. And actually, for some people, those very things are a form of play. And so there’s this piece of redefining play, and what it looks like in adulthood is, is an important piece, understanding that it doesn’t have to take a lot of time, and that we can actually do it alongside and with her kids in a way that is fulfilling for us. I think those are the kind of the three places I don’t know if that is helpful. Yeah,
Lauren Chante 12:37
that’s wonderful. It’s helpful on so many levels, so much so that I’m like, glazing over with all these parallel topics that we can cover, because it opens the door to so much. Okay, so let’s talk about me and us. This is like a thing. So I’m, I’m ready to play more, I understand the importance of it. I’m at a point in my life, where I’m really good at keeping promises that I made to myself for my own self care. So like setting the boundaries that I maintain, you know, I moved my body, I feed my body, well, I take care of myself by doing meditation, I care for my mental health, I get to play and I’m ready to do it. And I just don’t know how to get started. Because it’s been so long, since I’ve done anything other than being productive. Like when I really look back at it. It’s been at least like 1015 years of being a productivity bot. And I’m like, What do I even do? What do I enjoy? Like? How do you go about rediscovering that connection to play when it’s just been severed for so long.
Laura Froyen 13:36
So I think the easiest thing to do is to go for the low hanging fruit and take a look at what you’re already doing. So rather than adding more things, and additional load to our already full plate, it’s taking a look at you listed some things that you’re already doing for your well being that I think you could take a playful spirit or attitude to and bring play in those ways. In fact, likely you already do that I watch your Instagram videos, you seem to be having a good time when you’re doing your exercises. Sometimes your kids are involved. I think that it’s important for us to really be shifting our lens because we have this idea that our play has to look like child’s play. And there definitely is time and space for engaging in childlike play. It’s very healing our inner children love it because they love our mindful presence as adults with them as they play with it. That’s its own separate thing. But bringing a playful attitude to the things that we’re already doing and understanding that play looks different in adulthood. So runners, for example, often describe getting into this beautiful, almost euphoric flow state while they’re running. It’s feels so good to them. Play is also a flow state. So it at any point if you’re getting into a flow state, whether you realize it or not, you’re playing that’s a form of play. I play by baking I read love learning a new recipe, thinking kind of curiously about the, you know, the chemistry that’s happening with baking, having the time where no one’s interrupting me and I get into it, I get my duty, like my kind of creative juices flowing around, like, what could be a tweak here that I know my kids would like, you know, just thinking about those things, that’s a form of play. For me, it just looks different than played it in, in childhood. So turning back to your examples, what are some ways that you maybe already are playing? And how can we kind of heighten that and in like, kind of hold it till to the light a little bit more? Do you have an idea?
Lauren Chante 15:40
Yeah, definitely cooking, which is a good thing because it is 99% of what I do, right? It is constant. It is constant, but I do really enjoy it. And I do enjoy like making good dishes and putting a beautiful tablescape out making things that my family enjoys packing a lunch that’s beyond just you know, bags and things, something that’s hot and enjoyable for them. So definitely cooking. I’m
Laura Froyen 16:04
hoping I just want to pause here, okay, because I love that you said putting out a tablescape because that’s the perfect opportunity to invite wonder, joy and creativity. So if you put out a tablescape you’re setting your table for the dinner, perhaps you’re lighting a candle before you call folks, the folks and taking a second just for yourself in there to really like look at Oh, this beautiful meal that I just made. You know whatever decorations are on the table that are seasonal right now, thinking about like, Oh, look at just just drawing out and savoring some pleasure from that moment, lighting the candle and watching the flame dance. Have you noticed how kids do that they when you light a candle they they watch it, they have this mindful moment that’s so easy for them to access and so hard for us to access. We’re really inviting yourself in and just for 30 seconds before you call to people to the table is one way that you can kind of heighten that wonder that delight in your everyday life.
Lauren Chante 16:59
Oh, gosh, that’s so beautiful. And I have a candle lit right behind me. I know you guys can see it. But I always light a candle when I get home from dropping my kids off before my work day. Because I love candles so much. So it’s so
Lauren Chante 17:11
centering. Yeah, and so nice. And so I mean, and that’s the thing like the lighting a candle it looks like that one might be scented even before you light it, you can take a second. So this is something you do every day, you already know you’re going to do it. Take picking it up, smelling it, savoring it looking at the color. Why didn’t Why did I pick this color out thinking about? Like, what drew me to this candle? And isn’t it quite lovely? And isn’t it so interesting that I was drawn to it and smelling it, and setting it down and think put placing it on the place where you have it. It really like extracting as much pleasure and joy out of those little tiny moments is a wonderful way and easy, accessible way to bring more play and fun and enjoyment into your life in a way that’s adults and doesn’t actually take a whole lot of extra effort. You know?
Lauren Chante 17:59
Yeah. And it’s so cool. Because as we’re talking about this, I’m noticing the sensations in my body changing, like, I get this feeling in the back of my neck. That’s kind of like I always get it when I’m feeling nurtured and I’m feeling connected to being nurtured. And I know I’ve been studying a lot about the nervous system lately. I’ve always loved studying the nervous system. But this is like I’m feeling it while we’re recording the podcast. Yes, had that relationship to play literally impacts your body almost instantaneously. So it’s super cool.
Laura Froyen 18:26
Yes, our nervous systems love play. And we just we do really just have to kind of make it more adults like and just bring it into those everyday moments, you know?
Lauren Chante 18:36
Yeah. And I think that you definitely hit on something that’s been a block for me, which is feeling like I’m not doing it. Right, right. You know, you hear play. And this This is I hope this makes some people laugh. But I kind of think of the Lego movie where like you get through the whole Lego Movie. And at the end, you find out that it’s like this dad’s basement full of Legos. And like Lego obsessed and like, in my head, I’m kind of like, Oh, is that what play means for adults? Like, and like you said, it’s not playing necessarily with kids toys, but it’s like I have I have had trouble I think getting myself out of that box and figuring out how to have adult plays. That’s really helpful.
Laura Froyen 19:11
Absolutely. And you know, for some, for some adults having a chance to play with with toys or play objects is absolutely I mean, you know, adults will play video games. You know, we I have my sister loves has a crew that she plays board games with. And now her kids are old enough to play some of the grown up board games, they have so much fun. So there there’s definitely room for like, traditional game, toy based play. But I think one of the biggest barriers, especially for moms is that we do so much else and the idea of adding something else in and so I mean, like when you’re making dinner, it’s so easy to put on some like music that really makes you Bob You know that really makes you like move and that’s an a way to bring play in you know, and then you Your Kids inevitably join you and you get a little bit of play in connection with them. You know, if you’re going if you like going for walks out in nature taking a second to just like watch, you know, right now the here in the northern hemisphere, it’s spring babies are going to start emerging from eggs. And so I always love watching the little ducklings play in the water at this pond I go by, and kind of letting your your inner child guide you a little bit can also be so helpful. You know, if you were a child and you were walking by a pond that had little ducklings paddling around in it, you would there would be no chance that you wouldn’t stop, you would definitely stop, you would definitely watch you would definitely giggle and enjoy and Marvel and being maybe follow them along the pond. You know, we as adults often just walk right by we blow right past those things. Because we’re listening to a wonderful podcast like yours, you know, and we are just in our own adult world. And so letting our inner children guide us into those moments, too, I think is so important.
Laura Froyen 22:33
Yeah, I mean, so that’s setting boundaries with others and with ourselves. Sometimes we we can get good at setting boundaries with with others and then not set boundaries with ourselves. So you know that, you know, if we have this goal of getting a little bit of play time or recreation time for ourselves, when our kids are at preschool, for example, if they go to three hours of preschool, and then we end up just cleaning and doing laundry. That’s us not having good boundaries with ourselves. Right. You
Lauren Chante 22:59
You know, a lot of moms are shaking their heads. Yes. Right. Yeah.
Laura Froyen 23:02
And so I mean, and that’s part of the parenting too, is being the parent that you need in the moment. So being a good mom to yourself in the moment, you know, hey, yes, I know you want to be able to get the this laundry done, or hey, I know that right now you’re done with the laundry, you’re done with the cleaning and you’d like to do 30 minutes of you know, watching Netflix or scrolling on Instagram. But what would feel better to your body as getting outside for a walk or marveling at the news, like the new stuff coming up in your garden? You know, what would feel better for your body would be painting a little bit or you know, whatever it is that your hobbies are that kind of bring you joy. So re mothering yourself mothering yourself in the moment is also an important part of setting boundaries with yourself being a good mom, to to yourself.
Lauren Chante 23:52
I’m loving the use of the word marveling in this I feel like we do a lot of ings like moms are verb people, right? Meaning we’re laundering. We’re driving, we’re chauffeuring for those of us who have kids with lots of sports, and it’s like we’re checking all these verbs off the list exercising, eating, but are we making room for marveling rivaling? Yeah, those verbs to our list of the things that we do that’s so amazing, Laura, and I guess, is there any, like parting words that you would want to leave people with if they’re preparing to take this journey and to really incorporating play as part of caring for their overall wellness?
Laura Froyen 24:35
Yeah, I mean, I think figuring out when what fills you up, what lights you up? What is fun to you what you enjoy, like making a big old list of those things, making a list of what you used to enjoy as a child and seeing like, how does that translate into adulthood now for me now, what are the barriers to to that to be getting that space and time who can I recruit to help me with that, you know, severe parenting with a partner. They they want to help you get your needs met, they want to they love you they’re they’re your they’re your life partner Your help me, you know they want to be with you on on that journey. And I think the boundaries piece is also important. Like, for example baking something I really enjoy. And of course my kids enjoy baking to me baking with them is not a play for me you baking with them is is teaching managing coaching sibling rivalry and squabbles you know, it is an active process that is not in any way self care oriented, right. And so I have to have a very clear boundary with myself around, you know, not trying to make baking with them play for me, allowing it to be for them, letting that be for them. And then having an opportunity for baking that is purely for me and record helping them with that boundary. Yes, I know my loves, you’d like to join me in making these brownies. You know, we can make brownies together later. Right now these brownies are just for me to make you know, and having a good boundary not feeling guilty about that, like I get to model having those boundaries model doing things for myself with them actually feel like I’m cramming a lot of stuff in. And the other thing is
Unknown Speaker 26:22
so much it’s so much to talk about. That’s the topic.
Laura Froyen 26:27
But the like the other thing is understanding what the purpose of the play is. So if you are going to engage in play something that’s playful, knowing what the purpose is, is it for me? Is it for our relationship with my child? Is it for them? I’m so so I don’t enjoy, like imaginative play very much with my kids when they want to play dolls or characters of dragons or something. Like that’s not really my thing. But it’s not for me for it’s for them. It’s they’ve got something to process through, they’ve got something to work through, or they need connection time with me. Versus when we color together that’s for both of us. It’s their enjoyment and my enjoyment. And so finding places where you can do the play that you don’t really love to do that’s really just for them and enjoy it. Because the purpose is the connection. And the purpose is the supporting them not the purpose isn’t your enjoyment. And then finding ways to play that are where the purpose is for your enjoyment. So getting really crystal clear on what is the purpose and goal of this play. I’m about to engage in getting your mindset, right, because if we go into play with our kids, where the real true purpose and goal is connection, and meeting their needs, but we go into it with this mindset of like, I need to enjoy this too, then we end up resenting them, or feeling unsatisfied or dissatisfied with the process. Versus if we go in with the mindset of like, this is for them, I am pouring into them. This is just for them and isn’t really for me at all. It’s for them. We can be so much more generous with our play, you know, with with ourselves and with them in the play.
Lauren Chante 28:02
That’s so beautiful. Thank you so much for sharing your time and your expertise. Oh, sure, Laura, I feel so good right now. Like, I’m ready. I do. I’m like wiggly right now, because I feel so good. I want to make sure everybody knows where to find you. Laura is super active on Instagram. Her handle is at LauraFroyenPhD, I’ll make sure all of this is in the show notes too. She’s also on Facebook facebook.com forward slash Laura Fran. And her website is Laura fran.com. I would also highly recommend listening to her podcast, the balanced parent, I always pop in and listen to that whenever I can. It is super awesome. And you can see in here how much expertise she has with helping us with our play. So imagine how much wisdom she has for helping you guys with your kids and with your parenting and playing with that and she’s a wealth. So thank you so much for coming on, Laura.
Laura Froyen 28:55
Thanks for having me.
Lauren Chante 21:00
Oh, gosh, yes, that’s so beautiful. And I want to draw this back for my listeners to some of the things that we haven’t talked about on past podcast episodes, because a lot of my listeners like you, your audience, their moms, and emotional eating has been a big topic of conversation that people talk about in my Facebook group and get a lot of DMS about it. And we’ve talked a lot about how like the brain and the nervous system and get fatigued, there’s decision making fatigue, we get more impulsive when our brains are just kind of fried. And this is part of the work to helping your brain and your nervous system be in a better place. Like if you really want to improve your experience with emotional eating, which I believe is actually something called brain dead eating. I like to reframe it with that other title. You have to you have to be working with things that aren’t just food and working at times that aren’t just mealtimes because it’s about what happened earlier in the day, more so than what’s happening at the time you sit down to eat. So I just want you guys to know that it all goes together. And it’s so important to treat yourself like a whole person. And I know we said at the beginning that it’s like reading between the lines, knowing your worth is really important. And after knowing your worth being able to set boundaries around your time and giving yourself margin in your life so that you have the space to incorporate play, which is another thing that I think is a big struggle for women, because it’s a combination between setting boundaries, and also kind of like good time management and some household skills so that you can leave time for yourself.